Hi all,
We have implemented the first version of the EDID editor for the Vanity[sup]PRO[/sup]. It will allow the user to change certain default EDID parameters - both audio and video. On the audio side there will be all standard speaker configurations available, which will be useful specifically for the Stereo version of the Vanity[sup]PRO[/sup] to prioritize stereo mix playback at the source.
The video parameters will include at least two resolutions - FHD and 4k - and all standard refresh rates up to 60Hz. This should enable the VanityPRO to be used with HDMI splitters and switchers to report the correct video capabilities to the source without anything connected to the TX port. See the screenshot below.
[img]https://audiopraise.com/img/EDID_setup.jpg[/img]
If you have any suggestions for other parameters to be adjustable, please feel free to share here!
Hopefully this feature will be released soon in the firmware V5.
Best Regards,
Pavel
EDID Editor
Re: EDID Editor
I am using the 3840X2160p at 60Hz, and 7.1 out to get my set up with Roon and Dirac Live working properly. Windows after configuration, Dirac Live and Roon now see the VanityPro as an eight-channel device. The EDID editor works well.
Re: EDID Editor
Hi, Pavel. I'm still slowly debugging. I wish I had an HDMI analysis tool that reads and copies EDID. Maybe I'll have to buy one because I cannot say 100% for sure, but based on behavior, it seems that in the EDID editor in firmware version 5.1, Vanity Pro is NOT putting out the 3840 resolution. My Apple TV still thinks the TV it's connected to is a 1920 x 1080 device. Can you please check... in case there is interaction, I have the Vanity set to 3840 and I've tried all the frame rates. I've kept the speaker setup as 7.1.
The Apple TV recognizes the EDID coming from the Vanity as 7.1 surround and permits the user to use Apple's built in surround/Atmos decoder and output linear PCM. But as I said, I cannot get the Apple TV to output 4k video even though the Vanity is set to 4k. If you can get an Apple TV unit to test with the Vanity it would be fabulous!
Thanks.
Bob
The Apple TV recognizes the EDID coming from the Vanity as 7.1 surround and permits the user to use Apple's built in surround/Atmos decoder and output linear PCM. But as I said, I cannot get the Apple TV to output 4k video even though the Vanity is set to 4k. If you can get an Apple TV unit to test with the Vanity it would be fabulous!
Thanks.
Bob
Re: EDID Editor
Hi Bob,
Let me help you with debugging.
Do you have any HDMI splitter or multiplexer between the AppleTV and the VanityPRO? If so, please connect it directly to see if the splitter messes up with the EDID.
The EDID editor in the VanityPRO plays a role only of there is nothing connected to the HDMI OUT port. This way the editor can alter the internal video EDID data. If there is a TV or screen connected to the HDMI OUT port, the internal editor settings have no effect and video EDID is passed through from the HDMI OUT port.
In case of more complicated HDMI chain with splitters or muxes, it is sometimes useful to plug the VanityPRO into a PC or another device that would allow you to see the reported EDID. We have tested the EDID editor with multiple HDMI sources for compatibility including AppleTV, so I guess it is something specific to your setup. If you share more details how you have everything connected we might be able to help more.
Best Regards,
Pavel
Let me help you with debugging.
Do you have any HDMI splitter or multiplexer between the AppleTV and the VanityPRO? If so, please connect it directly to see if the splitter messes up with the EDID.
The EDID editor in the VanityPRO plays a role only of there is nothing connected to the HDMI OUT port. This way the editor can alter the internal video EDID data. If there is a TV or screen connected to the HDMI OUT port, the internal editor settings have no effect and video EDID is passed through from the HDMI OUT port.
In case of more complicated HDMI chain with splitters or muxes, it is sometimes useful to plug the VanityPRO into a PC or another device that would allow you to see the reported EDID. We have tested the EDID editor with multiple HDMI sources for compatibility including AppleTV, so I guess it is something specific to your setup. If you share more details how you have everything connected we might be able to help more.
Best Regards,
Pavel
Re: EDID Editor
bobkatz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, Pavel. I'm still slowly debugging. I wish I
> had an HDMI analysis tool that reads and copies
> EDID. Maybe I'll have to buy one because I cannot
> say 100% for sure, but based on behavior, it seems
> that in the EDID editor in firmware version 5.1,
> Vanity Pro is NOT putting out the 3840 resolution.
> My Apple TV still thinks the TV it's connected to
> is a 1920 x 1080 device. Can you please check...
> in case there is interaction, I have the Vanity
> set to 3840 and I've tried all the frame rates.
> I've kept the speaker setup as 7.1.
>
> The Apple TV recognizes the EDID coming from the
> Vanity as 7.1 surround and permits the user to use
> Apple's built in surround/Atmos decoder and output
> linear PCM. But as I said, I cannot get the Apple
> TV to output 4k video even though the Vanity is
> set to 4k. If you can get an Apple TV unit to test
> with the Vanity it would be fabulous!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob
That's the exact issue I am having. I am using a Samsung TV. I have a PC directly connected to the TV, the only thing. When the Vanity Pro is in the chain, the resolution is limited to 1920x1080. It is not working as Audio Praise describes. It needs to be fixed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, Pavel. I'm still slowly debugging. I wish I
> had an HDMI analysis tool that reads and copies
> EDID. Maybe I'll have to buy one because I cannot
> say 100% for sure, but based on behavior, it seems
> that in the EDID editor in firmware version 5.1,
> Vanity Pro is NOT putting out the 3840 resolution.
> My Apple TV still thinks the TV it's connected to
> is a 1920 x 1080 device. Can you please check...
> in case there is interaction, I have the Vanity
> set to 3840 and I've tried all the frame rates.
> I've kept the speaker setup as 7.1.
>
> The Apple TV recognizes the EDID coming from the
> Vanity as 7.1 surround and permits the user to use
> Apple's built in surround/Atmos decoder and output
> linear PCM. But as I said, I cannot get the Apple
> TV to output 4k video even though the Vanity is
> set to 4k. If you can get an Apple TV unit to test
> with the Vanity it would be fabulous!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob
That's the exact issue I am having. I am using a Samsung TV. I have a PC directly connected to the TV, the only thing. When the Vanity Pro is in the chain, the resolution is limited to 1920x1080. It is not working as Audio Praise describes. It needs to be fixed.
Re: EDID Editor
Dear Karl: I eventually solved the problem. You have to have good cables, make sure they are high bandwidth, 4k UHD cables.
After you replace the cables, then it's a new ball game. At that point I was able to send 4k out of Apple TV. HOWEVER, you are correct, the EDID from the Vanity is not sufficient. Even if it tells the source (e.g. Apple TV) that it's 4k, what about Dolby Vision? Vanity EDID menu does not include Dolby vision as an option.
I was able to solve that with a Simplified (brand) matrix switch. The matrix switch has full EDID management.
So, then, in several steps:
1) I was then able to extract the EDID from my Dolby-vision-capable TV using an EDID reading tool. I forget the name for this post but if you can't find one I'll look up what I used and report it here
2) The next thing is to RETAIN the video capabilities of your TV and modify the audio. I was able to modify the AUDIO capabilities of the EDID to include 8 channel linear PCM and save that as a new EDID. Using a free EDID editor. Again, I don't have the name of that editor in front of me right now but if you can't find one I'll look up what I used and report it here
3) I saved the edited EDID to a file.
4) I then loaded that modified EDID into the Simplified Matrix switch. Now, Apple TV and also my Mac think they are talking to a Dolby-vision-capable 4k TV with linear PCM audio. The Matrix switch simultaneously feeds video off to the TV and audio to the Vanity.
Hope this helps.
After you replace the cables, then it's a new ball game. At that point I was able to send 4k out of Apple TV. HOWEVER, you are correct, the EDID from the Vanity is not sufficient. Even if it tells the source (e.g. Apple TV) that it's 4k, what about Dolby Vision? Vanity EDID menu does not include Dolby vision as an option.
I was able to solve that with a Simplified (brand) matrix switch. The matrix switch has full EDID management.
So, then, in several steps:
1) I was then able to extract the EDID from my Dolby-vision-capable TV using an EDID reading tool. I forget the name for this post but if you can't find one I'll look up what I used and report it here
2) The next thing is to RETAIN the video capabilities of your TV and modify the audio. I was able to modify the AUDIO capabilities of the EDID to include 8 channel linear PCM and save that as a new EDID. Using a free EDID editor. Again, I don't have the name of that editor in front of me right now but if you can't find one I'll look up what I used and report it here
3) I saved the edited EDID to a file.
4) I then loaded that modified EDID into the Simplified Matrix switch. Now, Apple TV and also my Mac think they are talking to a Dolby-vision-capable 4k TV with linear PCM audio. The Matrix switch simultaneously feeds video off to the TV and audio to the Vanity.
Hope this helps.
Re: EDID Editor
Gentlemen,
We will of course look into this again. In the VanityPRO the HDMI pass through just copies video part of the EDID from TX port to RX port (from TV back to PC/Player/streamer) and adds its own audio part of EDID. We plan to expand the EDID editor functionality in the next firmware release with stereo/multichannel speaker configurations and selectable LPCM/DSD/bitstream support to fine tweak the audio capabilities to match those of the signal source. Please keep in mind that the video resolution setting is applicable as default video capability only when nothing is connected to the TX port and does not apply in your scenario with a TV/screen connected. We will retest and validate the video EDID pass through once again and report back. As Bob mentioned, one needs decent quality cables for 4k UHD.
Regards,
Pavel
We will of course look into this again. In the VanityPRO the HDMI pass through just copies video part of the EDID from TX port to RX port (from TV back to PC/Player/streamer) and adds its own audio part of EDID. We plan to expand the EDID editor functionality in the next firmware release with stereo/multichannel speaker configurations and selectable LPCM/DSD/bitstream support to fine tweak the audio capabilities to match those of the signal source. Please keep in mind that the video resolution setting is applicable as default video capability only when nothing is connected to the TX port and does not apply in your scenario with a TV/screen connected. We will retest and validate the video EDID pass through once again and report back. As Bob mentioned, one needs decent quality cables for 4k UHD.
Regards,
Pavel
Re: EDID Editor
Bob your are right! I received a new HDMI cable that I testing for another company. It solved all my issues. Everything is working perfectly.
Re: EDID Editor
Hi AP from Bob Katz. My routing has totally changed here. And I am concerned about future revisions of the Vanity EDID editor.
I am back to using the video output of the Vanity Pro to feed my video monitor.
Previously the route was: Video source (e.g. 4k BluRay Player) to Matrix Switch input. Matrix switch output A to TV. Matrix switch output B to Vanity HDMI In. Vanity HDMI out VACANT.
Then I discovered that sources that support Dolby Vision (DV) were not able to pass through this system to the TV AND also support 7.1 audio for some reason. My assistant told me he researched that and found with HDMI revision ? this combination was not possible, not enough bandwidth. I am not sure if that is the case, but in any case we were not able to create an EDID for the matrix switch that would pass 8 channels of audio AND support DV.
Then I split the HDMI outputs of my Blu Ray player so the video out fed the matrix switch and the audio out fed the Vanity in directly. Suddenly I got Dolby Vision AND 7.1 audio. But then I could not switch sources to the Vanity. And then I did not have enough inputs in the matrix switch to support separate audio and video sources AND my four sources.
OK, then as a last resort, I decided to return to this route, utilizing the Vanity HDMI output once again to feed the TV:
All sources go into the matrix switch
Video out of the matrix switch goes into the Vanity
Vanity out goes to the TV
Matrix switch EDID mode set to feed EDID back to the sources from the Vanity. In other words, the sources get their EDID information from the Vanity.
And lo and behold!!! Everything worked:The sources put out 8 channel audio AND DV. This means that the sources are detecting a proper video EDID coming BACK from the TV through the Vanity and through the matrix switch AND a proper audio EDID from the Vanity itself.
I conclude that the Vanity Video EDID setting in the latest firmware is a little confusing, or not working. And for me this is a good thing. The way the Vanity seems to be working is its Video ID comes from its output. And its audio ID is set by the screen settings. I confirm by using an application called "Monitor info" that this is true: To repeat: Vanity sends an EDID consisting of a video id from its HDMI output and an audio ID from its front panel screen. I wonder if you have Vanity set up so that if an HDMI output is connected, its Video EDID overrides the front panel settings. This is the confusing part as this is not indicated on your LCD screen or in the manual??? I would like to suggest that you continue to work this way, send the VIDEO portion of the HDMI output back to the source, and configure the audio portion on your LCD screen. Otherwise, complex sources such as HDR and DV would be very hard to support.
If you need a block diagram let me know (send me an email) and I'll draw it if you need to better understand this routing.
The reason is that I was unable to create a situation with my Matrix switch that would pass Dolby Vision AND 7.1 audio
I am back to using the video output of the Vanity Pro to feed my video monitor.
Previously the route was: Video source (e.g. 4k BluRay Player) to Matrix Switch input. Matrix switch output A to TV. Matrix switch output B to Vanity HDMI In. Vanity HDMI out VACANT.
Then I discovered that sources that support Dolby Vision (DV) were not able to pass through this system to the TV AND also support 7.1 audio for some reason. My assistant told me he researched that and found with HDMI revision ? this combination was not possible, not enough bandwidth. I am not sure if that is the case, but in any case we were not able to create an EDID for the matrix switch that would pass 8 channels of audio AND support DV.
Then I split the HDMI outputs of my Blu Ray player so the video out fed the matrix switch and the audio out fed the Vanity in directly. Suddenly I got Dolby Vision AND 7.1 audio. But then I could not switch sources to the Vanity. And then I did not have enough inputs in the matrix switch to support separate audio and video sources AND my four sources.
OK, then as a last resort, I decided to return to this route, utilizing the Vanity HDMI output once again to feed the TV:
All sources go into the matrix switch
Video out of the matrix switch goes into the Vanity
Vanity out goes to the TV
Matrix switch EDID mode set to feed EDID back to the sources from the Vanity. In other words, the sources get their EDID information from the Vanity.
And lo and behold!!! Everything worked:The sources put out 8 channel audio AND DV. This means that the sources are detecting a proper video EDID coming BACK from the TV through the Vanity and through the matrix switch AND a proper audio EDID from the Vanity itself.
I conclude that the Vanity Video EDID setting in the latest firmware is a little confusing, or not working. And for me this is a good thing. The way the Vanity seems to be working is its Video ID comes from its output. And its audio ID is set by the screen settings. I confirm by using an application called "Monitor info" that this is true: To repeat: Vanity sends an EDID consisting of a video id from its HDMI output and an audio ID from its front panel screen. I wonder if you have Vanity set up so that if an HDMI output is connected, its Video EDID overrides the front panel settings. This is the confusing part as this is not indicated on your LCD screen or in the manual??? I would like to suggest that you continue to work this way, send the VIDEO portion of the HDMI output back to the source, and configure the audio portion on your LCD screen. Otherwise, complex sources such as HDR and DV would be very hard to support.
If you need a block diagram let me know (send me an email) and I'll draw it if you need to better understand this routing.
The reason is that I was unable to create a situation with my Matrix switch that would pass Dolby Vision AND 7.1 audio
Re: EDID Editor
Using the application MonInfo I can confirm that the EDID select screen in the latest firmware HDMI 35A1, audio 5.2.1 is NOT functional. And for me this is a good thing! Because as I said in my previous post, the EDID is a combination of a Video EDID passthrough from the Vanity HDMI output and audio setting permanently as 8 channel LPCM-capable.
In other words, REGARDLESS OF THE SETTING OF THE EDID SCREEN, Vanity is telling the source that it is 8 channel LPCM-capable and that its video capability is that of the TV connected to its HDMI output. The "multichannel/stereo" and number of channels option does not seem to have any effect on its EDID.
(The EDID also contains 1 bit, SACD information but I'm not playing SACDs so I haven't investigated that)
So, please be careful in the next revision: Once you get the EDID setup screen to work, PLEASE ensure that IF the HDMI OUTPUT is connected, it will OVERRIDE the video settings on the Vanity's LCD screen. OR, include an OVERRIDE option in the Vanity EDID menu. In other words, Vanity will be able to choose some video settings OR choose to override them with the Video EDID from its HDMI output. Thanks.
In other words, REGARDLESS OF THE SETTING OF THE EDID SCREEN, Vanity is telling the source that it is 8 channel LPCM-capable and that its video capability is that of the TV connected to its HDMI output. The "multichannel/stereo" and number of channels option does not seem to have any effect on its EDID.
(The EDID also contains 1 bit, SACD information but I'm not playing SACDs so I haven't investigated that)
So, please be careful in the next revision: Once you get the EDID setup screen to work, PLEASE ensure that IF the HDMI OUTPUT is connected, it will OVERRIDE the video settings on the Vanity's LCD screen. OR, include an OVERRIDE option in the Vanity EDID menu. In other words, Vanity will be able to choose some video settings OR choose to override them with the Video EDID from its HDMI output. Thanks.