Hi Bob, thanks for your comprehensive report.
You are right in your observation that with a HDMI sink connected to the HDMI output port of the VanityPRO the EDID reported back to the source is a combination of the audio capabilities of the VanityPRO and video capabilities of the sink. Although it is functionally logical, it is not explicitly mentioned in the manual. Also, the video settings in the EDID editor apply only when there is nothing connected to the HDMI output port.
It would be useful to find out, why you don't seem to be able to see the EDID changes from the editor. We use either the same or similar tool for EDID readback and below you can find three examples of the EDID setting screen with corresponding audio capabilities readback.
1.
[img]https://audiopraise.com/img/EDID_multi_71_nobs.jpg[/img]
2.
[img]https://audiopraise.com/img/EDID_stereo_20_nobs.jpg[/img]
3.
[img]https://audiopraise.com/img/EDID_stereo_20_bs.jpg[/img]
Again, this might our fault not mentioning it explicitly in the manual, that after changing any setting in the EDID editor, the HDMI path needs to be re-initialized, which is can be achieved by simply letting the VanityPRO to go through the stand-by cycle (off and on). This would update all the new variables in the HDMI subsystem and force the new EDID to be sent to the HDMI source. Can you please try that?
We will update the manual with the missing details. Thank you for pointing those out and sorry for the confusion! Al of course it would be great to see the block diagram of your studio setup.
Best Regards,
Pavel
EDID Editor
Re: EDID Editor
Dear Pavel: I actually didn't check the EDID produced by the Vanity with the Moninfo tool. My post was meant to indicate that you would never be able to provide all the possible settings (including Dolby Vision) that a user might want with the EDID setting, so please keep it up that you "steal" the video EDID from the monitor if it's plugged in.
The one thing I did try was to change your audio EDID between stereo and multichannel, and I don't think I got any changes from my Blu Ray player, so I concluded that your audio EDID was not working. But it could have been some other problem, like the Blu Ray player ignoring one of the fields in the EDID, who knows.
-------
However, there is one audio EDID setting I would like to try and it is very difficult for me to create a custom EDID with Dolby vision included, so it would be nice if you include a 10 channel option that I could try. Let me explain:
Maybe I can fool the Apple TV 4k to put out 7.1 channels (no height channels) if the EDID says the receiver has 10 channels. In that case the first 8 channels would be the lower channels without the height. It might be worth a try.
The one thing I did try was to change your audio EDID between stereo and multichannel, and I don't think I got any changes from my Blu Ray player, so I concluded that your audio EDID was not working. But it could have been some other problem, like the Blu Ray player ignoring one of the fields in the EDID, who knows.
-------
However, there is one audio EDID setting I would like to try and it is very difficult for me to create a custom EDID with Dolby vision included, so it would be nice if you include a 10 channel option that I could try. Let me explain:
Maybe I can fool the Apple TV 4k to put out 7.1 channels (no height channels) if the EDID says the receiver has 10 channels. In that case the first 8 channels would be the lower channels without the height. It might be worth a try.
Re: EDID Editor
Hi Bob,
You are right, the is no way we can cover all possible scenarios and please everyone. The EDID editor is in the VanityPRO for two reasons. One is to set the correct audio capabilities depending on the installed output module, and second to give the user some options of the default video EDID in case there is nothing plugged into the HDMI TX port. Sometimes when people use simple signal splitters without any EDID management capabilities the VanityPRO might provide video EDID for the whole chain.
As mentioned above, for any change of the EDID options the HDMI chain needs to reinitialize with the new values, so the units should be put through a standby cycle.
It sounds like you cannot get 8 channels from the AppleTV. Does your Blu-ray player recognize the channel count correctly? Also, can you verify that that the source content actually has 7.1 audio option available? I read somewhere, that newer films in Atmos might not have 7.1 PCM track available and the next available fallback option is 5.1 and 2.0.
Regards,
Pavel
You are right, the is no way we can cover all possible scenarios and please everyone. The EDID editor is in the VanityPRO for two reasons. One is to set the correct audio capabilities depending on the installed output module, and second to give the user some options of the default video EDID in case there is nothing plugged into the HDMI TX port. Sometimes when people use simple signal splitters without any EDID management capabilities the VanityPRO might provide video EDID for the whole chain.
As mentioned above, for any change of the EDID options the HDMI chain needs to reinitialize with the new values, so the units should be put through a standby cycle.
It sounds like you cannot get 8 channels from the AppleTV. Does your Blu-ray player recognize the channel count correctly? Also, can you verify that that the source content actually has 7.1 audio option available? I read somewhere, that newer films in Atmos might not have 7.1 PCM track available and the next available fallback option is 5.1 and 2.0.
Regards,
Pavel
Re: EDID Editor
Yeah, looks like Apple TV only outputs 5.1 in linear PCM if the EDID just asks for linear PCM. If the receiver can decode Atmos it will provide a proper EDID and then ATV will output Atmos. At that point the lower 8 channels can be in linear PCM ---these are downmixed from Atmos, and sent with MAT metadata. I'm not totally sure what would happen if Vanity provided an indication that it has an Atmos decoder.... it might make ATV output 8 linear channels in the right combination.
I'm not sure what EDID you would have to give the ATV to accomplish that. Apple ALWAYS re-encodes, it has no bitstream option. But it would be interesting if we can find the right EDID to test A[[;e wotj/
The Blu ray definitely recognizes the channel count in Vanity and can output 8 channels so I get a full 7.1 channels from the Blu Ray player in lossless Dolby Tru HD.
As far as newer films go, I believe Atmost will automatically downmix to whatever the destination format requires. There is no "discrete" PCM linear track in Atmos. It's always encoded. The producer has to give the Atmos encoder the downmix coordinates desired. I would have to ask my experts what happens if the producer does not supply downmix coordinates for a 7.1 downmix.
I'm not sure what EDID you would have to give the ATV to accomplish that. Apple ALWAYS re-encodes, it has no bitstream option. But it would be interesting if we can find the right EDID to test A[[;e wotj/
The Blu ray definitely recognizes the channel count in Vanity and can output 8 channels so I get a full 7.1 channels from the Blu Ray player in lossless Dolby Tru HD.
As far as newer films go, I believe Atmost will automatically downmix to whatever the destination format requires. There is no "discrete" PCM linear track in Atmos. It's always encoded. The producer has to give the Atmos encoder the downmix coordinates desired. I would have to ask my experts what happens if the producer does not supply downmix coordinates for a 7.1 downmix.
Re: EDID Editor
Hi Bob,
Do I understand correctly that you imply AppleTV has Atmos decoder and if LPCM output is required it can decode Atmos and downmix to desired speaker configuration, provided the downmix details (coordinates) are provided? One cannot really tell from the specifications. Even if Atmos is "supported" it does not necessarily mean that it can be decoded and rendered into LPCM. Same for many other streamers and consoles.
Thanks,
Pavel
Do I understand correctly that you imply AppleTV has Atmos decoder and if LPCM output is required it can decode Atmos and downmix to desired speaker configuration, provided the downmix details (coordinates) are provided? One cannot really tell from the specifications. Even if Atmos is "supported" it does not necessarily mean that it can be decoded and rendered into LPCM. Same for many other streamers and consoles.
Thanks,
Pavel
Re: EDID Editor
Yes, Apple TV has a built in Atmos Decoder. It is, in fact an Atmost transcoder because Apple does not have a bitstream option. So the only two choices are: Convert to 5.1 Linear PCM, OR convert to 5.1 AC3.
"5.1" is not explicitly mentioned in the Apple menu when you choose to convert to linear pcm, but my tests and others tests show that Apple limits their decoding (or more correctly "transcoding") to 6 channels.
I have not confirmed that the downmix details in the metadata from the Vanity are properly read or read at all. I think Apple defaults to 5.1 regardless of the downmix coordinates it may see in the metadata.
"5.1" is not explicitly mentioned in the Apple menu when you choose to convert to linear pcm, but my tests and others tests show that Apple limits their decoding (or more correctly "transcoding") to 6 channels.
I have not confirmed that the downmix details in the metadata from the Vanity are properly read or read at all. I think Apple defaults to 5.1 regardless of the downmix coordinates it may see in the metadata.
Re: EDID Editor
Hi Bob,
That is useful to know, thanks. I guess the options available in the AppleTV (or their lack) are optimized for mainstream equipment and mainstream user and we have to work with what we have
Best Regards,
Pavel
That is useful to know, thanks. I guess the options available in the AppleTV (or their lack) are optimized for mainstream equipment and mainstream user and we have to work with what we have
Best Regards,
Pavel